Entrevista a Tuomas

Mape conducted an interview on his website http://www.imperiumi.net/

He has kindly translated it into English for us. It's the same old song once more: Nightwish are making the most expensive album ever in Finland. The album and movie both carrying the name "Imaginarium" are, like we've used to from Tuomas Holopainen, "the most ambitious project ever made in Finnish music".

According to Tuomas the idea for making "Imaginarium" was born when Dark Passion Play was finished in spring 2007. By the time not a single song had been made for "Imaginarium", but Holopainen was already contemplating what would be the next natural step in the evolution of Nightwish. Knowing Tuomas' lifetime enthusiasm towards movies, the idea of a film shouldn't really surprise anyone.

- With Nightwish everything's been done already. We have grown so big that there isn't much left to accomplish the way we've worked before. I wondered what would be the thing which would bring something fresh into our concept. I had this moment of "enlightenment", like why don't we utilize another dimension completely: the image. Our music has always been cinematic, so let's make it real. I started writing a soundtrack for a film which would hopefully be released some day. I'm ambitious and crazy, I want to do something that has never been done before. Sure, The Beatles, Pink Floyd and Lordi have made films linked to their music, but we're still doing something innovative here, something unseen and unheard of before.

- From the beginning I had it clearly in my mind that if the film ever got done, it would have to be Stobe Harju who directs it. I was convinced about this when we did "The Islander" video. It convinced me that it is possible to accomplish sufficient quality in Finland so that my visions for "Imaginarium" can become real.


Tuomas told his band mates about his idea around the New Year 2007/2008. It was received with enthusiasm but right after the initial exhilaration the reality hit and the quest for the film financing began. The last needed funds were confirmed in the dark chest of euros just a week ago and the promotion could begin.

The lion's share of the funds will come, like for the last two albums, from the band itself.

- We're going with the mentality that if we are ever able to get our investment back, we will be more than happy. It has been very comforting and sweet, that the band mates believe in this project so much that they agreed to go for it financially.


DRIVEN BY DREAMS

The healthily sceptic band members were finally convinced about the power of the idea behind "Imaginarium" only after they had heard the first "Röskö demo" aka the demo recordings made during the Röskö Summer Camp and after they had read the film script. Director Stobe Harju reveals that he and Tuomas had withheld the script from the other band members out of fear of their possible reaction to it. After all, this is an extraordinary expensive project.

- My biggest concern is that I am actually gambling with my friends' money. The consultant of the project Marcus Selin says that he's primarily concerned whether the director is exceeding the budget. As I am a debut director, it has created me some stress. However, we've been very aware of our resources all the time and we know how to make the most out of them. It's also great because we didn't start this with dollar signs on our eyeballs, but from the desire to realize this dream of ours. For the past 2,5 years Tuomas and I have agreed on most everything.

Alas, now the fundraising is done. Tuomas tells that they've set a ceiling for the budget and it has to hold. Only the final sum of monetary support from The Finnish Film Foundation remains undecided.

The project has been well received this far, yet with some understandable scepticism, as it can be compared to Lordi's Dark Floors in the recent past which didn't quite meet the band's and the production company's expectations. Nevertheless, Tuomas and Stobe give a big hand to Dark Floors because of it's appearance, direction and camera work, which are excellent. Stobe also tips his hat to Solar Films who, despite the less than spectacular success of Dark Floors still have faith in "Imaginarium". Stobe thinks that the reason for the faith lies in the band's strength and the story-line of "Imaginarium", which isn't tied to a certain time. Dark Floors might have come out somewhat late to ride the biggest wave of the Lordi hype. Again, Nightwish has a long string of successes under their belt. In a self-ironic horseplay, Tuomas wonders aloud if the time has come for Nightwish to fail already.

The sheer amount of work for "Imaginarium" raises the question whether the new music has been targeted just for the film project. What if the film hadn't raised the required funds, would Tuomas then have written completely another batch of songs for the next Nightwish album? Tuomas says firmly that not making the film was never an option. Yet he stresses that from the very beginning it was important for him that the music would work on it's own, on an album, without the film visuals.

- I never wanted to make a "Sweeney Todd", a musical where the story is sung. The lyrics on the album won't mention the main characters by name. None of the dialogue will be on the album either. The themes do tread the same waters and essentially, the album tells the same story, yet in a "more general manner".

Stobe thinks that "Imaginarium" is a never-before seen way of story-telling, for it can't be considered to be a music video nor a musical movie. It hasn't any direct elements from either. Tuomas agrees.

- I'd like to think that nobody has done this before. You see, "The Wall" by Pink Floyd just barely resembles it. "Moulin Rouge" has something similar too. Ditto "Sweeney Todd". We will hear the whole album within the film and the stories are the same, but there will be dialogue over, and between, the music in the film. Some of the music will have to be re-arranged so that maybe some intros get cut, or so that some choruses won't sung. There may be other such modifications; some parts might get elongated and whatnot. Arrangements will be made according the demands set by the narrative.

I recall hearing Tuomas say a couple of years back that "on the next CD there will be a video from every song". The original idea of "Imaginarium" was to shoot 12 thematically connected music videos or short movies to form a whole.

- My original idea was to make it without dialogue and screenplay-like storyline. Ideas for those are Stobe's.

At first, Stobe was interested in making a film without any dialogue, but during the writing process it became obvious that the idea wouldn't fly. Tuomas admits that even he, a movie buff, can't watch a movie with no dialogue for much longer than half an hour before it gets too tedious. One has to ask if the film can be applied as a promotional tool for the traditional music industry or even modified for commercial use so that songs can be picked as such for music videos? The answer is a resounding no. Stobe reveals that Nightwish will play at least on one but no more than on three music videos.

- The idea in the start was that any song could be cut for a standalone music video, but the story has grown and solidified to such a monster, that it's hard to figure how any part of the movie could be viewed as a music video as such. In the movie's story, the band appears playing when needed, not just "in the meantime" to fill space. In a music video, it's crucial to show the band clearly, but in the movie there are songs without a sight of the band. If we make music videos from this film material, editing them will take some special decisions.


WHAT, WHERE, WHEN AND WITH WHOSE MUSCLES?[/b]

The idea was to release the CD and film as simultaneously as possible, but work on the album has progressed to a point where its release can't be postponed any more. The first single from "Imaginarium" will drop late 2011 and the album will be released right in the beginning of the year 2012. According to Tuomas the film will hit the theaters "a month or three" after the audio release, but definitely during the first half of 2012.

- We toyed with the idea that we would get the film done first, so the fans would have to go to a theater to hear new NW-music. Unfortunately it was impossible, as we have to start touring soon enough . It takes time to hire the technicians and to book the shows. The original plan was to have the CD released in September 2011 but now it's been postponed to next January. For practical reasons the CD has to come out first.

Let's dabble some more with the idea that the film would have come first. Had this succeeded it would've been a revolutionary change to the earning logic of music industry. Die-hard fans would've wanted to see the movie several times over, paying at the box office separately for each viewing. Also, pirating the music would've been extremely hard too: who'd want to listen to a pompous metal symphony from a movie bootleg, recorded with some crappy cam-corder microphone? In the best-case scenario, the movie would have broke even at the box office already before there'd be anything physical available for the pirates. Now that the idea is out, one has to wonder why hasn't any big artist done this yet?

"Imaginarium" is a co-production of Nightwish's Scene Nation, Tuomas' own Potoska Publishing and Finnish film production company Solar Films. Like Tuomas reiterated: not making the film wasn't an option - not even if Tuomas would've had to gamble on all his property. Fortunately he didn't have to go that far.

- We have lived this dream so many years already that I couldn't have let off of it even at some point raising the funds seemed quite a desperate effort. Someone already said that this isn't working, can't you just go and make the plain album. But I couldn't have been able to live with myself if we hadn't done this. I was about to mortgage my property to finance this project. The others just wouldn't let me.

Stobe says that he remembers the exact moment when the script was finished and he and Tuomas finally understood how good it actually turned out. There and then, Tuomas up and went to tell the managers that it was the time for everybody to understand the fact that this album cannot be made without the film. That's when Stobe became aware of the stress of the project.

- Only then I realized all the pressures involved. It was about the band's own money and film budgets typically always get overdrawn. Even the manual of The Finnish Film Foundation for professionals of the trade begins with the sentence: "Film making is a risky business." Hence we took so long time for the pre-planning and hence we've made extremely careful plans. Every possible obstacle that may occur must be predicted and resolved in advance.

Solar Films in the role of professional consultant possesses large expertise in the film making business, unlike the interviewees. Solar's support eases their pressure. Stobe gives an example:

- Anything can happen, but that's why we have Solar to help us. They predict and prevent surprises. Unpredictable situations may occur and poof, there goes the budget. E.g. two main role actors may get sick simultaneously causing the schedule extend for a week because all weekdays have been booked for shooting other scenes. This may create a snowball effect. These are issues for the production company to mind.

According to Tuomas, as a layman he cannot comprehend how this kind of project can be completed in just a year, but he has an unwavering faith in Stobe and Markus Selin. His trust has a strong foundation: Selin has produced about 30 feature films and Stobe too has completed "impossible" projects already before. Harju produced 90 minutes of cinematic material for the award winning videogame "Alan Wake" in an astonishing schedule.

- We were told that "Alan Wake" must be done without cinematics. That they can't be finished within the schedule. The executive director glared at me and asked: Stobe, can it be made? In a second I replied "yeah". It took us exactly 30 weeks to accomplish the task. We made some fine looking, award-winning cinematics for the game. Success in that job gives me confidence for this project too, as we began planning "Imaginarium" with Tuomas already before I started working with "Alan Wake". so, during the last couple of months, we've shared full belief in completing this project in schedule.


[b]THE CLUB OF COMMON THINKING

There aren't any huge spoilers in this article, because despite my best efforts the twosome refrain from exposing any new tidbits from the storyline. Tuomas just says that he had a clear vision of the general themes which should appear in the originally planned short movies. They can be discussed here.

- Dark Passion Play was gloomy, but the subjects on this theme album are the beauty of the world and all that's good in it. The power of imagination and memories. They're very "un-metal" themes, I know, but we're not forgetting the "dark side" or melancholy either. This will become a good metal album: there will be heaviness and hard stuff, but now I want to present more of the better side of life. I want that when the crowd comes out of the cinema, everyone will feel good and have a lust for life.

All through the Nightwish years, Tuomas has told us that his songs are his way of writing a diary. Can "Imaginarium", a fantasy film, still represent pages out of the same diary, and how?

- After the hard times on the previous album I might have understood something about life and become... not necessarily "more positive", because it is such an awful word and "positivity" sucks ass, but I am maybe... more content with life. This is the feeling I want to convey, so it still is the same old diary I'm writing. I don't know, it might be soon that my life goes down the drain and the next CD will be all-out black metal, but this is how I feel right now.

Stobe confirms that all said above by Tuomas will be visible in the film: no matter how bad things may seem, there'll always be a ray of light there, and usually it comes from one's own imagination. There's always some small thing that brings you strength. Stobe even opened the story a little:

- For the main character of the film, the old composer, music is the most central part of life, but the most important rays of light still come from other sources. After watching the film, understanding those little things will hopefully be much clearer to the viewer too. The composer has had quite a wild imagination when he was a child, and by returning to his childhood fantasies he will learn to understand his current situation in life. Fantasies help him to remember the most important things along his past life and surprisingly enough, not all of them are about music. Fans may detect very familiar references to some familiar persons, too.

Writing the story has been a special challenge for Harju, because he has known the members of Nightwish for a relatively short time and they haven't discussed about what has happened in their lives. So Harju has re-written the band members' individual histories with the means of fantasy. The musicians have gladly accepted Stobe's visions, and at least in Tuomas' head has Stobe dug so deep already that their connection at times resembles telepathy. They don't even need to speak about everything aloud. According to Stobe their preferences in severel things, like in literature, movies and music, borders on creepy.

- In the beginning or the project I was occasionally afraid that Tuomas would consider me a sycophant. It looked like there wasn't a single thing we would disagree upon. Even the things we don't like are eerily similar.

The mental link between the two interests me to the degree that I ask Tuomas how well another person like Stobe or the movie's storyboard artist, Lapland Studios' Arto Harju-Autti or the concept artist "ToxicAngel" Janne Pitkänen, can transcribe someone else's imagination into images.

- The images are as close to my visions as ever possible. With Pitkänen we've had this connection already for years and Stobe has taken it all to next level. All I had in mind was 12 songs, each with an attached image.

Even when the progress of the project via the participants mirroring each other's minds could be called some sort of positive vicious cycle, Stobe likens it to a hen vs. an egg situation.

- I have had access to listen to the band's demos at every stage and every time I've had my hair standing on end, even with the first demos Tuomas declared crap. Of course I didn't admit I had any goose-bumps, but when every new demo exceeds all my expectations, I better improve too. Everyone sees images in their head when they listen to Nightwish, but when the songs grow while the work progresses towards the final mix, it builds up my challenge as well.

- The things will grow also while mine and Tuomas's preferences are so similar, we'd bounce ideas between us asking if this would sound good and the other would reply instantly that it's good but wouldn't this sound even better. It happens all the time. We have been able to make compromises, too, which is very important.


SYRUP, S'IL VOUS PLAIT?[/b]

Stobe says that after reading the "Imaginarium" script, it could be asked if the story is already too sticky-sweet. He says its credibility lies on the synthesis of music and image. Tuomas considers these starting points a really big challenge for making a credible film.

- The concept sounds just as honey-filled and syrupy as anything can be. The challenge lies right there but we are on a good cause here. If we manage deliver it into people's ears and eyes with credibility, it will work!

It took some effort from the musically uncompromising Tuomas to digest the fact that the flow of the movie demanded previously explained changes in the music, but now Tuomas agrees that it makes the project even more interesting and he can still publish his original musical vision on the album.

Tuomas has good feeling about the album. The audio part of "Imaginarium" is already done, save for the vocals and final mix. The mixing process will start on April 1st and they have reserved two months for it. There's some food for your thought: what might the track count be if the mixing takes two months?

In addition to Tuomas' compositions the movie will include some functional music, "score". It has been written by Petri Alanko, who also worked on the "Alan Wake" project. Alanko appreciates Nightwish's music and knows the lines which Tuomas follows in his music. In Stobe's mind this makes him the only possible choice for the job.

Tuomas recalls his visit at the score recording sessions in London:

- There's so much of the choir and orchestra and whatnot bells and whistles, that it will be impossible to put it all on the album. But we have to use it somewhere, it is too awesome material to be left out.

The professional cynic that I am, I start counting that a separate film release accompanied with an expanded version of the already released CD of course makes an additional bait for purchasing the physical movie release once it's released.


[b]CYNICS WORKING AS HANDBRAKES

Stobe is grateful for having realistic Markus Selin in the reins of the production. Harju considers himself a dreamer like Tuomas, and two of that kind can drive any film budget through the roof in no time at all. Luckily, the cold palm of the financial reality (in the form of Selin's hand) is there to slap them around every now and then. Jukka Nevalainen is another anchor for the times when the feet of these two dreamers float too high aboveground. These guys are the tourniquets for the wounds the dreamers bleed money from.

- We are the Ozzys and they are our Sharons laughs Tuomas.

Along his position as the string in the end of the Stobe-balloon, Selin has taught Harju the realities which have to be in order before even starting to shoot the project.

- One must know how to select actors before delving into grand visions, because actors cost loads of money. How much of huge effects are necessary and which of them are genuinely important for the story. Of course, I'd like to have everything transferred from the script to the screen, but then again, that's just not realistic. Markus has an important role - someone has to conduct the magic pocket calculator.

We will not talk about actors because casting has only begun. The names of the actors won't be of importance anyway.

- We don't want the film to culminate in any known actor/actress instead of Nightwish and the storyline.

According to Tuomas there are no roles available even if Cruise or Depp would want to work for free in this film. Stobe thinks that if for example highest on the poster would read Johnny Depp above Nightwish and "Imaginarium", it would be wrong. But there's no fear of that happening.


INCREDIBLE YET CREDIBLE

The film will be fantastic and surrealistic by character but it's credibility is being built with every minute detail. One big aspect is that the English pronunciation in the film has to be authentic. Ergo, the cast must be Anglophones. There won't be any bonus money for native English speakers, but all costs are followed intensively. "Even if we'd like to have a few flocks of whales floating in the sky but the money would be the same to hire the main actor for a week, we'll have to choose the main actor", Tuomas explains.

Shooting of Imaginary will begin in the spring with director of photography, Hena Blomberg. Blomberg who shot The Islander video, is already on the same wavelength with Stobe and Tuomas and is in terms with the film imagery.

So today, the music and storyboard are ready. So is a part of the concept art which should be all finished by June. I had a chance to listen to one fully arranged, orchestrated track while watching a few hundred frames of the storyboard, and I no longer question the confidence Tuomas and Stobe have on the project. Holopainen and Harju are obviously insane, but the ever-foggy line between genius and insanity maybe blurs some more with "Imaginarium".

A successful fantasy can be recognized for is its ability to open doors in even the most cynical person's mind. It can peek through the shades of the windows of the real world, to places where miracles happen. Six minutes and 41 seconds of music from "Imaginarium" and the cartoon-like storyboard frames were enough to blow me out of the usual and a wee drop in the corner of my eye told me that huge things can be expected from "Imaginarium". Just a short section from it's beginning includes shattering, heart-rending beauty, things comfortably familiar to fans - and plenty of miracles.

The "brothers" certainly have a fair share of visions, but which of them will turn into reality on the film remains to be seen. At first "Imaginarium" sounded like a "100 million euro project" to Stobe but with meticulous planning and research the costs won't overwhelm them anymore.

ENTER 2012 - IMAGINARIUM TOUR

Stobe's mouth waters at the possibility of hearing Nightwish play the music from the film with live orchestra, the film running on the screen in the background. The idea of NW playing with an orchestra has been tossed around since the days of Century Child, but wouldn't his be even more of a reason for doing it? It's just another dream all right, but dreams have been the fuel for Nightwish for well over a decade no, and with dreams they've accomplished a lot already. There are reasons to predict even bigger things for the future.

Meanwhile, in the real world, the band will embark on tour next January. The whole of next year is reserved for touring. How the "Imaginarium" will adapt to the concert stage is yet to be figured out. Meetings with Teemu Koivistoinen who has designed stages for Lordi and other known Finnish acts, have been held and ideas tossed about which film props would work on stage. Tuomas says that the film practically demands video screens on the stage, but nothing's decided yet. One thing is sure though, the entire concept album will not be played, as the very idea of playing a full theme album plus three encores makes Tuomas wretch.

What will eventually end on stage - that will be seen come January 2012.